460 Rowland

[ROADGUY]

I have seen and heard about .460 Rowland conversions for a 1911. My concern or ? is the 460 seems to have a lot more pressure than the .45 auto. Over time will this cause stress or even catastrophic breakdown over time? Any one have any experience with this conversion or is it more of a novelty something else to just have? Thanks.

[Seismic Sam]

There was a guy here who had one, and it was pretty spiffy and made up out of "extra good" parts, IIRC....

The 460 Rowland is made up of 45 Win Mag cases cut down to take the pressure, and with the proper heavy springs and maybe a recoil buffer, you can shoot this load in what is dimensionally a 1911, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all the metallurgy is the same. The next load down from the 460 Rowland is the 45 Super, which looks like a 45 ACP case but has a MUCH thicker base. I have a Springfield longslide V-16 that is stamped 45 Super, and I'm pretty sure it's just a standard Springfield with a heavier spring. As a matter of fact, it DOES come with a 45 ACP spring if you want to shoot normal 45 ammo in it. The other thing about the 460 Rowland is that the cases look like 45 ACP cases, so if you are shooting at any indoor range your precious and hard to find cases will just disappear among the common 45 ACP brass on the floor.

The approach of using thicker brass to compensate for higher pressures is not unique to the 45 Super, and the 9x23 Winchester is the high pressure version of the 38 Super. The reason for this is that the 9x23 Winchester is really a cut down and mouth reamed .223 case, so it can take pressures of around 50,000 PSI in a high quality 38 Super.

All this being said, the Wilson 460 Rowland is hideously pricey, and the ammo is even worse. This gun is for EXPERT reloaders ONLY, unless you have so much money you can afford a gold plated 50 cal Desert Eagle. Quite frankly, if I had my choice of a 460 Rowland or a 357 Coonan, I'd go for the Coonan any day.

P.S. If you want to go completely nutty, there is such a thing as a 45-08 pistol cartridge, and it's a 45 ACP or 460 Rowland hand made out of .308 brass. You have to cut down and ream the cases yourself, and the recoil is said to be hideous.

[Snowgun]

So, i have a rowland, made by clark custom. They also sell a conversion kit for 1911's.

My gun was hand made from good quality parts, like caspian frames and STI slides, clark barrels, etc. They do have a list of 1911 manufacturers they suggest to use with their conversion kit, because cheaper frames, etc cant handle the impulse. I read a bunch of forums where people using the conversion kit and experimenting with loads a lot started cracking their frames, but these people shot alot and were really trying stuff out reloading wise.

I use a 24 lb recoil spring, and the recoil for my hunting loads is strong. U really need to be smart reloading since u are playing with little bombs pretty much. I essentially am compressing aa#7 with the bullet because u still need to stay within normal 45acp OAL's, so there is not much room to work with on hunting loads. Also, i beat the hell out of my brass, to the point where i would be clenching my sphincter pretty tight if my 9mm brass looked like that. Buffalo sells ammo though, and its pretty hot, if u dont want to deal with reloading.

I shot my deer this year with my rowland, and i learned some stuff about correct bullet construction with this gun. Hornady xtp ended up exploding at the high velocities, i should have used xtp mag bullets or copper solids for the tougher construction ( which i read but forgot/ignored, stupid). I was picking jacket shards out of the carcass and guts (i do necropsies) and i could see where the lead separated and deflected.

Fun caliber tho, good boom stick.

[Need4Speed]

I have the 460 Rowland conversion for my Glock 30. LW had a fire sale on barrels in recent months, for a while there they were selling for less than 100 bucks with shipping. I went a different route, and had them do a 460 ream and thread on a 6" barrel. Added the 23lb spring, custom comp, and the weighted rear site.

I don't reload, so the ammo is a little pricey. If you buy it from Rowland, Underwood, it's a little over a buck a round. Buffalo is closer to 2 bucks a round. Georgia-Arms has some 185GR ammo for 34 bucks for a box of 50, at that price the average guy can afford to shoot it once in a while. Specs are not quite up to what the other players in the market are at, but it's still decent.

It's way too big for conceal and carry with this setup, have it for more of a "wow factor" at the range. Kicked like a mule when I had the standard LW barrel and comp, but with the current setup and shooting gloves on I can do it one handed, could shoot that all day if it was a little cheaper to shoot.

[mmcnx2]

I'm in big trouble, I'm agreeing with Sam way to much these days. I went with the 357 Coonan.

There was a guy here who had one, and it was pretty spiffy and made up out of "extra good" parts, IIRC....

The 460 Rowland is made up of 45 Win Mag cases cut down to take the pressure, and with the proper heavy springs and maybe a recoil buffer, you can shoot this load in what is dimensionally a 1911, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all the metallurgy is the same. The next load down from the 460 Rowland is the 45 Super, which looks like a 45 ACP case but has a MUCH thicker base. I have a Springfield longslide V-16 that is stamped 45 Super, and I'm pretty sure it's just a standard Springfield with a heavier spring. As a matter of fact, it DOES come with a 45 ACP spring if you want to shoot normal 45 ammo in it. The other thing about the 460 Rowland is that the cases look like 45 ACP cases, so if you are shooting at any indoor range your precious and hard to find cases will just disappear among the common 45 ACP brass on the floor.

The approach of using thicker brass to compensate for higher pressures is not unique to the 45 Super, and the 9x23 Winchester is the high pressure version of the 38 Super. The reason for this is that the 9x23 Winchester is really a cut down and mouth reamed .223 case, so it can take pressures of around 50,000 PSI in a high quality 38 Super.

All this being said, the Wilson 460 Rowland is hideously pricey, and the ammo is even worse. This gun is for EXPERT reloaders ONLY, unless you have so much money you can afford a gold plated 50 cal Desert Eagle. Quite frankly, if I had my choice of a 460 Rowland or a 357 Coonan, I'd go for the Coonan any day.

P.S. If you want to go completely nutty, there is such a thing as a 45-08 pistol cartridge, and it's a 45 ACP or 460 Rowland hand made out of .308 brass. You have to cut down and ream the cases yourself, and the recoil is said to be hideous.

[ROADGUY]

Thanks for the info . Looking on the Rowland website I saw there list of recommended platforms to use for there kit . I do have one of the mentioned I could use as a donor. Now being that I don't reload the price of ammo for as much as it would be shot isn't to terrible. I do have a bunch of free time in the winter , I was thinking about starting being that I do have some oddball calibers . Already have a single stage press & some components I picked up a while ago. & have read a bunch of reloading manuals . If my memory serves me isn't there a member on the forum who helps newbies out to start the reloading process. Thanks.

[Seismic Sam]

Thanks for the info . Looking on the Rowland website I saw there list of recommended platforms to use for there kit . I do have one of the mentioned I could use as a donor. Now being that I don't reload the price of ammo for as much as it would be shot isn't to terrible. I do have a bunch of free time in the winter , I was thinking about starting being that I do have some oddball calibers . Already have a single stage press & some components I picked up a while ago. & have read a bunch of reloading manuals . If my memory serves me isn't there a member on the forum who helps newbies out to start the reloading process. Thanks.

The member is Oldman50FCSA, and he lives in Osceola, WS. You need to see him before you consider any more pipe dreams about getting into 460 Rowland reloading in the near future. Just listen to a guy who actually reloads the stuff:

U really need to be smart reloading since u are playing with little bombs pretty much. I essentially am compressing aa#7 with the bullet because u still need to stay within normal 45acp OAL's, so there is not much room to work with on hunting loads. Also, i beat the hell out of my brass, to the point where i would be clenching my sphincter pretty tight if my 9mm brass looked like that.

This guy knows what's up, and he ACCURATELY describes reloading the 460 as "making little bombs"

So go take a cold shower, EM Oldman, and get some wisdom about what a lethal fantasy it is to reload a nightmare like the 460 with less than 5 years of experience under your belt.

[ROADGUY]

Thanks for the heads up the .460 conversion might be a Xmas gift for myself with factory loads. But would like to reload 22/250 & 9mm & .45 auto. Not looking into hot loads & what you describe. will be PM above said & gain some knowledge before I start reloading anything thanks for the bold description.

[Seismic Sam]

You're welcome, and I'm glad you realize what you're up against with the 460 Rowland. Oldman will teach you very well how to SAFELY handload most calibers, and if you want to load super hot he will give you the boot instantly. The 460 Rowland is one of those calibers where the only two flavors are HOT and INSANELY HOT, so that could be one of the VERY few calibers that he wouldn't help you with.

[Snowgun]

Thanks for the heads up the .460 conversion might be a Xmas gift for myself with factory loads. But would like to reload 22/250 & 9mm & .45 auto. Not looking into hot loads & what you describe. will be PM above said & gain some knowledge before I start reloading anything thanks for the bold description.

You're welcome, and I'm glad you realize what you're up against with the 460 Rowland. Oldman will teach you very well how to SAFELY handload most calibers, and if you want to load super hot he will give you the boot instantly. The 460 Rowland is one of those calibers where the only two flavors are HOT and INSANELY HOT, so that could be one of the VERY few calibers that he wouldn't help you with.

Sam is totally correct here.

That being said, It's not some super arcane process to reload 460 (actually, its pretty much just load, if you are re-loading used brass you better really know what you are doing or use them in the plinker level loads), it just takes a solid attention to METHODOLOGY and QUALITY CONTROL.

I would say start by doing a lot of .45 acp loading. The 460 round is very geometrically equivalent except for the case length feature. In fact, I have a hornady progressive press dedicated to .45 and .460. I just switch out the dies and powder drop (460 uses same reloading dies plates as .45, just dialed in different, so i bought two sets).

When you are comfortable and KNOWLEDGEABLE about knowing what to look for in a finished round, knowing what components (and brass quality) to start with, how your press functions, what parts of your press can tend to come loose or change as you are reloading, how to check charge weight before and after a session, OAL before and after a session, crimp, chamber checking, etc., you will be ready to slowly work up a load in 460, assuming you already have also learned how to properly chronograph and work up charges.

The good news, is once you have a recipe and a procedure, it's pretty much just churning out rounds and keeping an eye on your quality control. (That is where the most dangerous area exists, when you get complacent and just churn out ammo, you may start skipping steps.) I reload about 5 to 7000 rounds of gamer, fast powder heavy bullet pistol ammo a year, and I chamber check and inspect EVERY SINGLE ONE. This is why my gun runs flawless and I've never had a squib or kaboom or FTF.

[Seismic Sam]

Yeah, what he said I said before!!!!