Competative Tactical shotgun

View · by **LumberZach** on Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:00 pm

Hey guys,

I am looking for a gun to shoot 3 gun mostly, but would also let me take part in these tactical shotgun matches such as the Nordic or Forrest Lake events. I would also like to be able to use this in a HD/tactical/training class roll. I have it narrowed down between the Versa Max Tactical, and the Benelli M2 with the 21" barrel. However, I have some worries about both. Versa Max - Remington QC has been giving some mixed reviews. Most people love them, but every now and then somebody gets something wrong on theirs. Also, I understand that it is overbored and I am wondering how well it will shoot slugs. Again, most guys say it is ok, but there is that possibility that it does go wrong. Benelli - I have heard that it is hard to find M2's with the 21" barrel and that they get a little scarce at times making for an order with a benelli dealer and a long wait. I also have not seen any of these, but I have not been looking for them as much either. I would rather buy an American made gun, but I can't deny the Benelli's following. What do you guys think? What have been your experiences?

View · by **Bessy** on Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:13 pm

I roll with a pump (super nova). I've been scoping out the m2 and the versa-max myself. Both of those guns are going to need quite a bit of work from their stock configuration in order to competitive.

You can find reasonalby priced m2's on the enos forum's for sale. Most have had all the work done to them. while 1100 bucks might seem pricey for used m2-m1, if you do the math you are actually saving yourself quite a bit of money. I would also look at the FN slp/sx3 as they are very popular. Here is one used setup ready to go for a good price http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.p ... pic=198552

With regard to " I would also like to be able to use this in a HD/tactical/training class roll." You certainly COULD use a competition shotgun in that roll, but I prefer my HD guns a little shorter.

GLHF

View · by **LumberZach** on Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:20 pm

The slp doesn't really excite me like the others do. While I would love to get the Remington, the m2 just feels outstanding. Also, I know that it needs work, but I would rather get the gun and an extension or a few other bolt on's and figure out what I want and build it up myself as I gain experience. Also, for the HD part, I have been looking very seriously at getting a mossberg 590a1 for home defense. But an M2 with a 21" barrel would be roughly the same length and much lighter. My house is fairly wide in that I am not too concerned with an 18" at this time.

View · by **Mn01r6** on Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:42 pm

I would read up on 21" vs 24" for the M2. I don't think you get much by chopping off 3 inches - for competition. I would use my AR for HD before my shotgun, but that's a different thread.

Anyway - you are welcome to try out my 24" M2 with the full Benny Hill treatment. I have not had a single malfunction due to the gun, it is a breeze to clean, and I am proficient at load 2/4 after very little practice.

For me, the Versa, the 1301, SLP, and the M2 all have good and bad things about them. Ultimately I went with something that has a great fit for me because all the work and the fancy doodads won't do crap for you if the gun doesn't shoot where you aim it.

View · by **PHATSPEED7x** on Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:00 pm

LumberZach wrote:Hey guys,

I am looking for a gun to shoot 3 gun mostly, but would also let me take part in these tactical shotgun matches such as the Nordic or Forrest Lake events. I would also like to be able to use this in a HD/tactical/training class roll. I have it narrowed down between the Versa Max Tactical, and the Benelli M2 with the 21" barrel. However, I have some worries about both. Versa Max - Remington QC has been giving some mixed reviews. Most people love them, but every now and then somebody gets something wrong on theirs. Also, I understand that it is overbored and I am wondering how well it will shoot slugs. Again, most guys say it is ok, but there is that possibility that it does go wrong. Benelli - I have heard that it is hard to find M2's with the 21" barrel and that they get a little scarce at times making for an order with a benelli dealer and a long wait. I also have not seen any of these, but I have not been looking for them as much either. I would rather buy an American made gun, but I can't deny the Benelli's following. What do you guys think? What have been your experiences?

I can totally understand your worry with Remington and quality control. I had a 870 tactical with a major manufacturer defect. I ended up repairing the gun myself and later trading it for something different.

I personally would spend the money on the Benelli. They are great guns.

View · by **Bessy** on Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:06 pm

LumberZach wrote:The slp doesn't really excite me like the others do. While I would love to get the Remington, the m2 just feels outstanding. Also, I know that it needs work, but I would rather get the gun and an extension or a few other bolt on's and figure out what I want and build it up myself as I gain experience. Also, for the HD part, I have been looking very seriously at getting a mossberg 590a1 for home defense. But an M2 with a 21" barrel would be roughly the same length and much lighter. My house is fairly wide in that I am not too concerned with an 18" at this time.

So here's the thing. Most guys who are doing the 3-gun thing, and doing it well are running at least an extension that let's them hold 9 down. With an extension that long you are going to be longer than a 21 inch barrel... so going with a 24 won't hurt your over all length. The only thing you will save is a little weight.

The type of work that needs to be done is not the sort of thing MOST folks want to do it home. Welding your lifter, and hogging out your loading port is probably best left to folks that do it all day for a living. I've successfully hogged out a few loading ports... but it's not something I would recommend trying at home.

View · by **crbutler** on Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:49 pm

With 3 gun, it really depends on your desired division as to what gun you want.

Pumps generally play with pump guns (the heavy metal division) and from what I have seen, the Benelli Nova is the most well received of the lot, although most use whatever they have.

For most competitors (the tactical divisions) they are running a semi auto of some sort. The gas guns (remington et al) give a little less recoil at the cost of a little reliability (although that seems to be more related to cleaning and how good the guy doing the mods to the gun is..) The Benelli system is a little more reliable, but has a bit more recoil and if you put mods on it that are not well advised, it can puke on you as well. Generally, you need a bit hotter shell to make the Benelli work right. A triangle built benelli is a thing of beauty though... I can sympathize with the remington QC issues. I had 3 remington competition guns, and all of them died hard in a match due to some piece or another breaking.

For the open divison, really you need a magazine gun to be competative. A highly modified mag gun. Think a Saiga 12 with $1-2K of mods to start.

I have the benelli for when I shoot tac division. Otherwise, when I make it to one of these, I shoot the Saiga. Being single allows you to buy toys...

View · by **shooter115** on Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:51 pm

Its pretty damn tough to beat the M2 for 3gun. It's light and reliability is second to none. As previously mentioned don't get too hung up on barrel length. Most guys are running 10 round or even longer tubes anyways. A 26" barrel with extended chokes is about the same length as a 10 round tube on an M2.

As far as modding an M2 goes, you don't have to spend much as most of it can easily be done at home. As tough as it can be taking a Dremel and files to a brand new $1000 shotgun it's a pretty straightforward deal. For $40 you can send your lifter to C-Rums to get welded up. Load out of battery mod is a piece of cake. And just getting started you really don't need any of that to get started.

I scored my 26" barreled M2 off GB brand new for $900, but I was watching auctions for a long time before I found that one. If you're budget is a little tighter look for a used M1. I saw a practically brand new 26" M1 at a gun show earlier this year for $550. I should have bought it but funds at the time were a little tight.

Check out the MN3Gun Group website for info as well. There's some great info posted on there.

View · by **LumberZach** on Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:34 am

shooter115 wrote:Its pretty damn tough to beat the M2 for 3gun. It's light and reliability is second to none. As previously mentioned don't get too hung up on barrel length. Most guys are running 10 round or even longer tubes anyways. A 26" barrel with extended chokes is about the same length as a 10 round tube on an M2.

As far as modding an M2 goes, you don't have to spend much as most of it can easily be done at home. As tough as it can be taking a Dremel and files to a brand new $1000 shotgun it's a pretty straightforward deal. For $40 you can send your lifter to C-Rums to get welded up. Load out of battery mod is a piece of cake. And just getting started you really don't need any of that to get started.

I scored my 26" barreled M2 off GB brand new for $900, but I was watching auctions for a long time before I found that one. If you're budget is a little tighter look for a used M1. I saw a practically brand new 26" M1 at a gun show earlier this year for $550. I should have bought it but funds at the time were a little tight.

Check out the MN3Gun Group website for info as well. There's some great info posted on there.

Thank you for the reply. This is more along the lines that I was thinking. While I want to be cooperative I don't need every widget on the gun to start out with. I am thinking that as I go I will decide for myself what I need and what needs to be done by a professional. I love building up my own guns so to buy one already done up is taking half the fun out of it from the beginning. The other side if this is that it isn't my goal to win, but to participate and improve my handling and skills of the weapon. I know a 26" with a 10 round tube is better for the game, but I wouldn't use that or get the same handling experience to transfer over to other HD or tactical guns.
While we are talking about the m2 I am wondering what you guys have to say about 922r applying to the m2. It seems to be a pretty big grey area for most of what I have been looking at right now. While I don't see 922r compliance being a big threat I would rather be compliant than not if it does apply to the gun. I assume most m2's at any given match are not compliant though so I am interested to see what you guys say.

View · by **LumberZach** on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:05 am

shooter115 wrote:Its pretty damn tough to beat the M2 for 3gun. It's light and reliability is second to none. As previously mentioned don't get too hung up on barrel length. Most guys are running 10 round or even longer tubes anyways. A 26" barrel with extended chokes is about the same length as a 10 round tube on an M2.

As far as modding an M2 goes, you don't have to spend much as most of it can easily be done at home. As tough as it can be taking a Dremel and files to a brand new $1000 shotgun it's a pretty straightforward deal. For $40 you can send your lifter to C-Rums to get welded up. Load out of battery mod is a piece of cake. And just getting started you really don't need any of that to get started.

I scored my 26" barreled M2 off GB brand new for $900, but I was watching auctions for a long time before I found that one. If you're budget is a little tighter look for a used M1. I saw a practically brand new 26" M1 at a gun show earlier this year for $550. I should have bought it but funds at the time were a little tight.

Check out the MN3Gun Group website for info as well. There's some great info posted on there.

Thank you for the reply. This is more along the lines that I was thinking. While I want to be cooperative I don't need every widget on the gun to start out with. I am thinking that as I go I will decide for myself what I need and what needs to be done by a professional. I love building up my own guns so to buy one already done up is taking half the fun out of it from the beginning. The other side if this is that it isn't my goal to win, but to participate and improve my handling and skills of the weapon. I know a 26" with a 10 round tube is better for the game, but I wouldn't use that or get the same handling experience to transfer over to other HD or tactical guns.
While we are talking about the m2 I am wondering what you guys have to say about 922r applying to the m2. It seems to be a pretty big grey area for most of what I have been looking at right now. While I don't see 922r compliance being a big threat I would rather be compliant than not if it does apply to the gun. I assume most m2's at any given match are not compliant though so I am interested to see what you guys say.

View · by **shooter115** on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:15 am

Do you have a HD shotgun now? I'm guessing the answer is yes.

A couple years ago I shot my first 3gun match using my my Winchester 1300 Defender. After that first match, I quickly came to 2 conclusions. First was "damn this is fun", second was "I want to win" or at least not be held back from winning based on equipment alone. Now, it's going to take a few matches for most anybody to have your shotgun be a limiting factor. But it didn't take long for me to realize that a HD oriented pump shotgun with a fixed cyl bore and a 7 shot magazine was not the best combo. So I knew I had to get a shotgun.

Now I can understand the value of using a fighting gun in competition as a training aid, but just because I shoot one gun for competition, doesn't mean I've suddenly forgotten how to shoot my old Winchester. And in any case, a shotgun would be my third choice for HD.

When it came time to pick out a set up I really leaned on the knowledge base of the 3gun community and a lot of folks stepped forward to help and offer advice. Picked up a lot of great info on the Brian Enos forum as well, which is by far the best site I know of for info on the gun games. At first I really didn't want a Benelli, as I had previously been the unlucky owner of a lemon SBE and had a frankly horrible CS experience when dealing with them. But then I started taking a real hard look at what the experienced local shooters and the pro shooters were using. After really digging in I came to find that in most cases, unless the shooters were specifically sponsored by brand x, y or z, they shot a Benelli. Not saying that's your only option as there are a lot of good shotguns out there, but the Benelli M1/M2 is by far the most common shotgun at the matches.

As far as 922R -blah, blah, blah goes when it comes to shotguns. Nobody outside the internet has ever heard of it as far as I know. Beside that, from my understanding, unless you run a pistol grip stock it qualifies as compliant anyways.

View · by **Ghost** on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:34 am

I don't shoot 3 gun nor follow it. But a great tactical shotgun that can be had cheap is the Beretta 1201FP. Got mine for $120 several years ago when a police department decided to replace them and it's a fantastic shooter for the price. I see them for $250 on gunbroker.

The Beretta 1201FP shotgun uses the proven inertia drive operating system found on Benelli shotguns and is very reliable. Some models came with rifle sights and some came with ghost ring sights with a tritium "night sight" insert in the front sight.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_1201FP

Not mine

View · by **shooter115** on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:08 am

Ghost wrote:I don't shoot 3 gun nor follow it. But a great tactical shotgun that can be had cheap is the Beretta 1201FP. Got mine for $120 several years ago when a police department decided to replace them and it's a fantastic shooter for the price. I see them for $250 on gunbroker.
The Beretta 1201FP shotgun uses the proven inertia drive operating system found on Benelli shotguns and is very reliable. Some models came with rifle sights and some came with ghost ring sights with a tritium "night sight" insert in the front sight.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_1201FP

Not mine

Fixed cyl bore makes it a deal breaker for 3-gun

View · by **LumberZach** on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:23 am

shooter115 wrote:Do you have a HD shotgun now? I'm guessing the answer is yes.

A couple years ago I shot my first 3gun match using my my Winchester 1300 Defender. After that first match, I quickly came to 2 conclusions. First was "damn this is fun", second was "I want to win" or at least not be held back from winning based on equipment alone. Now, it's going to take a few matches for most anybody to have your shotgun be a limiting factor. But it didn't take long for me to realize that a HD oriented pump shotgun with a fixed cyl bore and a 7 shot magazine was not the best combo. So I knew I had to get a shotgun.

Now I can understand the value of using a fighting gun in competition as a training aid, but just because I shoot one gun for competition, doesn't mean I've suddenly forgotten how to shoot my old Winchester. And in any case, a shotgun would be my third choice for HD.

When it came time to pick out a set up I really leaned on the knowledge base of the 3gun community and a lot of folks stepped forward to help and offer advice. Picked up a lot of great info on the Brian Enos forum as well, which is by far the best site I know of for info on the gun games. At first I really didn't want a Benelli, as I had previously been the unlucky owner of a lemon SBE and had a frankly horrible CS experience when dealing with them. But then I started taking a real hard look at what the experienced local shooters and the pro shooters were using. After really digging in I came to find that in most cases, unless the shooters were specifically sponsored by brand x, y or z, they shot a Benelli. Not saying that's your only option as there are a lot of good shotguns out there, but the Benelli M1/M2 is by far the most common shotgun at the matches.

As far as 922R -blah, blah, blah goes when it comes to shotguns. Nobody outside the internet has ever heard of it as far as I know. Beside that, from my understanding, unless you run a pistol grip stock it qualifies as compliant anyways.

I understand what you are saying, and I can agree with it. I have been looking at 3 gun for a real long time but only gotten out to one match. I hope to be at the 3gungroups match this weekend though. Though the way I see it, a real long tube is somewhat void when the match only let's you start with 8 or 9 shells in the gun anyway. This may be corrected with experience but I think an 8 or 9 round tube is all the more I need as it is. And I think an m2 with a 21" barrel AND extended chokes with a magazine going right up to the end of the choke or maybe an inch longer will provide plenty of magazine space. I don't want to get too crazy on the shotgun though. Spend more time energy and money in other areas of 3 gun but something to allow me to be competitive and something I can use often.

View · by **Mn01r6** on Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:28 pm

LumberZach wrote:...Though the way I see it, a real long tube is somewhat void when the match only let's you start with 8 or 9 shells in the gun anyway. This may be corrected with experience but I think an 8 or 9 round tube is all the more I need as it is. And I think an m2 with a 21" barrel AND extended chokes with a magazine going right up to the end of the choke or maybe an inch longer will provide plenty of magazine space....

My 24" with a 10 round tube is as little as I would ever want to go. Starting with 8 in the tube and 1 on the lifter/chambered depending on the stage, you can only stuff 2 more in if there is movement before a long string or awkward position. I present this video from the Nordic tactical shotgun match where my stage plan was really good (up until I DQ'd myself for not stepping down the stairs) and I would have done a load 2/4 if I had space for 4 shells...you don't want to load any more shells in that tiny little bunker.

With that being said, sometimes they make you shoot from confined spaces, like the Stage 11 outhouse... sometimes shorter is better and it all depends on what they throw at you.