1,000 yard rifle

[Erud]

I'd try .22WMR, only a ~215 foot drop from the factory zero. When you put them on paper it'll impress those f-class snobs.

What exactly is a "factory zero"?

Zero.

At what distance?


More great advice from 20mm.

[OldmanFCSA]

Get a 50BMG target rifle.
Single shot only.
Nightforce or Leupold scope.

And learn to reload it.

I teach reloading - 50BMG included.

[farmerj]

Don't know what you are looking to spend, But I have a very nice .260 Remington for sale on this very board that would fit the 1,000 yd bill nicely:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=52707

As for optics for 1000 yards, I stick with iron sights.

Iron sights? Really? Forgive me, I'm an "evil, modern sporting, black rifle" kinda guy and have NO experience, whatsoever with bolt guns, but you can't possibly be using irons out to a grand? Huh?????

Yes, people do. And yes, people make one shot hits at that range too.


Its called practice.

[LumberZach]

No ranges anything like 1,000 yards in SE Pennsylvania, but there are near the Twin Cities! So, what do you recommend as a rifle and scope that would allow me to work up to that distance? I'm not a hunter at the moment, so target calibers are ok. Need factory ammunition, but in time reloading would be feasible too.

I can get a good deal on a FN SPR A3G or A5M XP or go the Remington 700 with aftermarket stock route. Don't know much of anything about optics for those ranges.

Feel free to point me to decent sources for this on the web, if you know them.

Buy once Cry once...

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/3-0135841

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/242032 ... 2420328164

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tact ... -qd-lt-104

Get a good Harris Bi-pod also.

I have been doing a similar project, and went very close to this route. I did cheap out on the scope though, and the vortex here is very similar to one that I have been considering for an upgrade. Federal GMM is very impressive stuff for off the shelf so far. If you have the means, the FN SPR sounds like a very impressive rifle, but a savage rifle with an optic the price of an FN will probably serve you better than the other way around. Also, you don't need a scope mount like that unless you are looking for a QD function. Ideally I will work my way up to f-class or other competitions, but for now I am still working on learning how the competitions are shot and getting my own equipment out to a longer range.

[minnesotatv]

No ranges anything like 1,000 yards in SE Pennsylvania, but there are near the Twin Cities! So, what do you recommend as a rifle and scope that would allow me to work up to that distance? I'm not a hunter at the moment, so target calibers are ok. Need factory ammunition, but in time reloading would be feasible too.

I can get a good deal on a FN SPR A3G or A5M XP or go the Remington 700 with aftermarket stock route. Don't know much of anything about optics for those ranges.

Feel free to point me to decent sources for this on the web, if you know them.

Start with a decent .22LR and master the skills of a rifleman. 50yds, 100yds, and 200yds.
Once you've done that, THEN do it with a centerfire rifle.

If you think any range is just going to let Joe Blow show up and start blasting away at a grand,
your mistaken. At GRRC, more than one individual that didn't have the skills and/or didn't
know his equipment has been told to pack up and go home.

[Erud]

No ranges anything like 1,000 yards in SE Pennsylvania, but there are near the Twin Cities! So, what do you recommend as a rifle and scope that would allow me to work up to that distance? I'm not a hunter at the moment, so target calibers are ok. Need factory ammunition, but in time reloading would be feasible too.

I can get a good deal on a FN SPR A3G or A5M XP or go the Remington 700 with aftermarket stock route. Don't know much of anything about optics for those ranges.

Feel free to point me to decent sources for this on the web, if you know them.

Start with a decent .22LR and master the skills of a rifleman. 50yds, 100yds, and 200yds.
Once you've done that, THEN do it with a centerfire rifle.

If you think any range is just going to let Joe Blow show up and start blasting away at a grand,
your mistaken. At GRRC, more than one individual that didn't have the skills and/or didn't
know his equipment has been told to pack up and go home.

While this is somewhat true, it is also exactly the sort of advice that keeps most shooters from ever even trying to shoot at long range. I've shot a whole lot of matches at GRRC, and I can only recall one shooter ever being told to stop and it was just this past summer. I don't know exactly what his problem was as I was in the pits when he was shooting, but I'm pretty sure his rounds were subsonic by the time they got down range and they were hitting everywhere but the target. This resulted in pretty regular dirt showers for us in the pits and the potential for someone to get hurt. Before shutting him down, people were doing their best to get him straightened out so he could keep shooting. Nobody gets turned away because they are new, or don't have a certain experience or skill level. Even at a match, I believe the official GRRC rule is that you have to be on paper within 6 rounds. Showing up at a match for your first try ever at 1000 is probably not the best idea, but if your ammo will reliably reach 1000 yards and your scope or sight is capable of dialing the necessary amount, I guarantee I can have you on paper in 6 rounds. Most people are happy to help new shooters and will give advice, loan gear, etc. Heck, if someone wants to try it out sometime I always have an extra mat, sling and glove in the truck and you can shoot the wood rifle from the pic in my other post if I ok now in advance. You'd just need to offset some of my ammo cost, as it isn't cheap for me to make.

Learning on a .22 is great and I'm a firm believer that everyone should have one and should shoot he heck out of it. That said, there's no reason someone has to spend years mastering a rimfire rifle before ever trying long range. It's not rocket science, and you might be surprised that you can actually hit what you're aiming at with just a little basic instruction.

[Rip Van Winkle]

I think we should set up a demonstration so 20mm can dazzle us all with his master riflery skills.

[Erud]

I think we should set up a demonstration so 20mm can dazzle us all with his master riflery skills.

I'd take a day off work to see that.

[farmerj]

I was asked to stopped once at gopher at 1000 yards on a m1 garand using Korean m2 ball. But when your rounds are keyholing the targets, it becomes a safety issue. Came back next match with 175 gr amax loads, no issues at all.


Actually, it really is rocket science to shoot long range. They both are ballistics. Technically speaking.

[Erud]

Actually, it really is rocket science to shoot long range. They both are ballistics. Technically speaking.

Yeah.

I guess I meant it more in the traditional sense of the phrase. Knowledge of ballistics or rocket science is not required to shoot at long range. Like I mentioned earlier, someone can get you on paper pretty easily as long as your equipment is up to the task. There is no need to make it more difficult or scary than it really is.

[cgk]

Lots of good information here, thanks.

For the next outdoor season I'll concentrate on shooting Appleseed https://www.appleseedinfo.org/index.html competition with my 10/22 with peep sights--that's why I bought my first .22. It'll be interesting to see if my eyes are good enough to shoot without optics. (My current competitive shooting is "combat style" with a AR-15 carbine SBR fitted with an Aimpoint, so this will be quite different.) If I had to guess, my eyes may be good enough for Appleseed at 25 yards, but will not be good enough for Palma or the NRA high power classes that require iron sights. In any event, I can shoot CMP http://thecmp.org/ with my 16" AR-15 carbine at 100 yards, either with a scope or with my backup iron sights, and get some experience. If that goes well, I can think more about a bolt gun for longer-range shooting. Not to mention that I would expect many of the CMP competitors will also shoot bolt guns and can offer some advice. More useful, I can see about spectating at a match at GRRC when they have a 1,000 yard competition, or a high power match at one of the other clubs. They should be able to put a RSO to work.

[OldmanFCSA]

I think we should set up a demonstration so 20mm can dazzle us all with his master riflery skills.

I'd take a day off work to see that.

I wonder if he would show up riding his Pink Pony ???

[Erud]

Lots of good information here, thanks.

For the next outdoor season I'll concentrate on shooting Appleseed https://www.appleseedinfo.org/index.html competition with my 10/22 with peep sights--that's why I bought my first .22. It'll be interesting to see if my eyes are good enough to shoot without optics. (My current competitive shooting is "combat style" with a AR-15 carbine SBR fitted with an Aimpoint, so this will be quite different.) If I had to guess, my eyes may be good enough for Appleseed at 25 yards, but will not be good enough for Palma or the NRA high power classes that require iron sights. In any event, I can shoot CMP http://thecmp.org/ with my 16" AR-15 carbine at 100 yards, either with a scope or with my backup iron sights, and get some experience. If that goes well, I can think more about a bolt gun for longer-range shooting. Not to mention that I would expect many of the CMP competitors will also shoot bolt guns and can offer some advice. More useful, I can see about spectating at a match at GRRC when they have a 1,000 yard competition, or a high power match at one of the other clubs. They should be able to put a RSO to work.

Sounds like a plan. Just keep in mind that your eyesight is not nearly as important as you might think for this type of shooting. You need to be able to see your front sight(prescription glasses or contacts work fine for this if you can't see without them), but that's about it. Sights on a Palma rifle are generally much easier on the eyes as the sight radius is much longer. Also, your eye and brain naturally like to center things up, so the 3 circles of rear sight, front sight, and target can feel a lot more natural than a post front. Many people have a much harder time focusing on the shorter sight radius of an AR Service Rifle. Also, pretty much nobody can actually see the target clearly, I know I can't. I just center the fuzzy gray glob inside the sharp black ring inside the fuzzy gray ring and pull the trigger. The targets are scaled for each distance, so the sight picture is basically(there are a few exceptions) the same on all of the NRA targets from 25 to 1000. For instance the aiming black on the 1000 yard target is 2x the size of the black on the 500 yard target. Looks the same when you are shooting.

[cgk]

pretty much nobody can actually see the target clearly, I know I can't. I just center the fuzzy gray glob inside the sharp black ring inside the fuzzy gray ring and pull the trigger.

What about judging the wind near the target in addition to near the firing line? Can you see movement of the grass or other features of the range? I read about shooters adjusting for differences in wind at different distances, but maybe that was only for shooters with telescopic sights?

No question a Palma rifle with a barrel of around 32" does give a better sight picture than my 10½" SBR but I can focus on the front post of of the SBR so maybe not so bad.

[Erud]

At these sorts of matches there are wind flags set up at various points on the range. The range at harris has a total of 7 or 8 of them, with a flag on either side of the range at 1000, 800, 600, and 300 if I recall correctly. They give a good general idea of what the wind is doing, but trust them at your own risk. They don't always point the right direction and they are in places where your bullets won't be traveling. Most shooters will also be reading the mirage with their spotting scope as they are shooting. I generally focus my scope on around the midway point at most ranges to look at mirage. This means the target is blurry if I look at it through the spotter, but this is not important as what I really want to see is how the wind is moving the mirage. There are always other wind indicators to observe also, like grass, trees, the dust in the impact area when shots hit, etc. The hard part is figuring out what it all means and what to do about it. Sometimes you are better off watching the flags, and some you are better off watching mirage. They will both bite even the best wind readers on occasion.

Reading the wind well is much more of an art than a science, and the only way to learn how to do it is to do it. It takes time and experience, but like anything else it starts to become more natural the more you do it. If I were being honest, I'd have to say that I couldn't usually make heads or tails of the wind most of the time for about my first 5 years in the sport. After that it sort of started to "click", and I had a better grasp of what was going on. Now sometimes I can see it pretty well, while other times I am still mystified. I guess that's part of the attraction for me. If it was easy, it wouldn't be worth doing.