Media using Freedom Of Information Act to get gun owners inf

[benny]

I was watching the news tonight and saw that a news paper in CT where those kids were killed went and used the FOIA and got gun owners names and addresses to post in their paper to show how many own guns localy. All they did was post where the bad guys can go to rip off another gun to go kill people with. How smart are these news paper thuggs any way??

Benny

[bstrawse]

It was White Plains, NY, not CT... but White Plains is fairly close to Newtown..

http://www.lohud.com/article/20121226/N ... -criticism

b

[Lunchbox]

This happened again? Or was this the same incident from last week?

[CUZICAN]

Same - mainstream media is usually 2-3 days out on this stuff.

[ex-LT]

I was watching the news tonight and saw that a news paper in CT where those kids were killed went and used the FOIA and got gun owners names and addresses to post in their paper to show how many own guns localy. All they did was post where the bad guys can go to rip off another gun to go kill people with. How smart are these news paper thuggs any way??

Benny

According to a study conducted by Carnegie Mellon University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, that isn't necessarily the case.

...
In 2008, the Commercial Appeal in Memphis published a searchable database of concealed-carry handgun permit owners in Tennessee that included names and ZIP codes of gun owners (but not addresses). A similar furor followed. "What they've done is give criminals a lighted pathway to [burglarize] the homes of gun owners," Chris Cox, now the top lobbyist for the National Rifle Assn., told the paper at the time.

But that concern turned out to be wrong, according to the 2010 study by Alessandro Acquisti, an associate professor at Carnegie Mellon, and Catherine Tucker, a professor at MIT, titled "Guns, Privacy and Crime."

Using the information published by the Commercial Appeal, they found burglaries in 2009 declined 18% in the city's ZIP codes with the most concealed-carry permits and generally increased in ZIP codes with the fewest.

The researchers found no difference for violent crimes, such as assault, that often lack premeditation.

The study also suggested that, following publication of the Memphis database, burglary risk instead shifted to areas with fewer gun registrations. In fact, the study noted that the "results suggest that, despite activism on the part of gun owners against the publication of such databases, it may actually be gun permit holders who benefited" from publication.

LINK to L.A. Times story

LINK to CMU/MIT study

[tazdevil]

Is this against the law to do in MN?

[Mn01r6]

(a) The commissioner must maintain an automated database of persons authorized to carry pistols under this section that is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, only to law enforcement agencies, including prosecutors carrying out their duties under subdivision 8a, to verify the validity of a permit.

(d) Nothing contained in any provision of this section or any other law requires or authorizes the registration, documentation, collection, or providing of serial numbers or other data on firearms or on firearms' owners.

Is there a public list of gun permit holders, or can I obtain a list or call local law enforcement to find out individuals in my community who have a permit to carry?
No. This is private data and is not available to the public.

Minnesota also has an invasion of privacy lawsuit called "publication of private facts" which is similar to defamation but used when private information is disclosed publicly (as opposed to defamation where false information is disclosed). I don't know if it would specifically apply to a gun permit (PTP or PTC) but I think a strong argument could be made.

[Dick Unger]

Yes. The people who drafted our MPPA specified that Permit Information is classed as Private Data on Individuals. Under the Data Practice Act. everything is public, unless it's not. Permit stuff is classified as NOT.

[Lunchbox]

I was watching the news tonight and saw that a news paper in CT where those kids were killed went and used the FOIA and got gun owners names and addresses to post in their paper to show how many own guns localy. All they did was post where the bad guys can go to rip off another gun to go kill people with. How smart are these news paper thuggs any way??

Benny

According to a study conducted by Carnegie Mellon University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, that isn't necessarily the case.

...
In 2008, the Commercial Appeal in Memphis published a searchable database of concealed-carry handgun permit owners in Tennessee that included names and ZIP codes of gun owners (but not addresses). A similar furor followed. "What they've done is give criminals a lighted pathway to [burglarize] the homes of gun owners," Chris Cox, now the top lobbyist for the National Rifle Assn., told the paper at the time.

But that concern turned out to be wrong, according to the 2010 study by Alessandro Acquisti, an associate professor at Carnegie Mellon, and Catherine Tucker, a professor at MIT, titled "Guns, Privacy and Crime."

Using the information published by the Commercial Appeal, they found burglaries in 2009 declined 18% in the city's ZIP codes with the most concealed-carry permits and generally increased in ZIP codes with the fewest.

The researchers found no difference for violent crimes, such as assault, that often lack premeditation.

The study also suggested that, following publication of the Memphis database, burglary risk instead shifted to areas with fewer gun registrations. In fact, the study noted that the "results suggest that, despite activism on the part of gun owners against the publication of such databases, it may actually be gun permit holders who benefited" from publication.

LINK to L.A. Times story

LINK to CMU/MIT study

There's one glaring difference between the two here, one was name and zip code. The other is actually enough information to drive to someone's house (name and full address). Personally, thats a fact I wouldn't want released by anybody but me to the people that need to know or that I want to know.

[Thunderjohn]

If I was a bad guy with any sense I'd try and burglarize non-gun owner homes.
If I found a gun it would be a plus, but to knowingly break in to a home where I knew there
were guns and gun owners would just be stupid.

[XDM45]

Yes. The people who drafted our MPPA specified that Permit Information is classed as Private Data on Individuals. Under the Data Practice Act. everything is public, unless it's not. Permit stuff is classified as NOT.

Which was wise of them.

To my knowledge (and any LEOs correct me on this.......) even the cops don't know if you're a PTC holder unless you tell them. They verify it by calling into the Dispatcher who then checks with the MN BCA via access to the MN BCA systems.

[tman]

To my knowledge (and any LEOs correct me on this.......) even the cops don't know if you're a PTC holder unless you tell them. They verify it by calling into the Dispatcher who then checks with the MN BCA via access to the MN BCA systems.

A query and response takes less than 30 seconds through dispatch. I just need your name and date of birth.

[MasonK]

If I was a bad guy with any sense I'd try and burglarize non-gun owner homes.
If I found a gun it would be a plus, but to knowingly break in to a home where I knew there
were guns and gun owners would just be stupid.

But if it guns you want, you'll know where to find them on this map. My friend was robbed of his entire safe. The safe was not tiny, and it was bolted to the concrete floor. It was clearly a well planned burglary against a gun owner.

[XDM45]

To my knowledge (and any LEOs correct me on this.......) even the cops don't know if you're a PTC holder unless you tell them. They verify it by calling into the Dispatcher who then checks with the MN BCA via access to the MN BCA systems.

A query and response takes less than 30 seconds through dispatch. I just need your name and date of birth.

Right on. LEOs in the field can't directly access it since they are on the MN BCA network, still 30 seconds is fast enough. Good to know. I've never been stopped while carrying, which I'm sure will happen someday possibly.

[XDM45]

If I was a bad guy with any sense I'd try and burglarize non-gun owner homes.
If I found a gun it would be a plus, but to knowingly break in to a home where I knew there
were guns and gun owners would just be stupid.

But if it guns you want, you'll know where to find them on this map. My friend was robbed of his entire safe. The safe was not tiny, and it was bolted to the concrete floor. It was clearly a well planned burglary against a gun owner.

Yeah, he was definitely targeted.