The Hughes Amendment and law enforcement

[Lumpy]

The Hughes Amendment to the Firearm Owner's Protection Act closed the federal registry of full-auto firearms post-1986. Naturally there is an exception for full-auto weapons possessed by law enforcement agencies; but how is this exception implemented? Are law enforcement weapons not required to registered at all? Are they added to the federal NFA registry? Are there two registries, one for law enforcement weapons and another for non-law enforcement? Does any provision of federal law require that such weapons be destroyed or collected by the BATFE if they're decommissioned?

The focus of these questions is whether the law-enforcement exception to the Hughes Amendment could be used as a back-door to get automatic firearms into the registry, and then have these weapons be transferred by the normal NFA process to private individuals. If it could be done, I could see a few Second Amendment- friendly sheriffs departments thumbing their nose at the Hughes Amendment and even maybe making it a source of department funds.

[Rip Van Winkle]

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, the only weapons transferable to individuals (ie peasants) are those currently on the registry. The only exceptions are LEO's, and manufacture FFL's.

Now theoretically I suppose you could get your friendly sherif to deputize you.

[bstrawse]

All firearms under the national firearms act are registered in the registry - including those possessed by agencies. Firearms can be transferred to other agencies or to a FFL/SOT holder, including a manufacturer. They can't be transferred to individuals unless they were registered before the registry closed.

The only backdoor I could see is possession by a sworn law enforcement officer connected to an agency with a properly registered NFA firearm - I just don't see that happening. In Minnesota, for example, you need a POST license to be sworn.

b

[gun_fan111v2]

Do they have to surrender the firearm when leaving the job? Just curious.

[Lumpy]

Firearms can be transferred to other agencies or to a FFL/SOT holder, including a manufacturer. They can't be transferred to individuals unless they were registered before the registry closed.
b

So technically, it's that non-FFL/SOT individuals can't own post-1984 full-autos at all, regardless of source? Oh well, that's that then.

If it's that only agencies can possess such weapons, that would seemingly put police departments in violation of the federal constitution's Compact Clause, effectively elevating them to the status of "troops".

[Motoman]

Law enforcement agencies (not individual officers) purchase machine guns tax exempt on a form 5. They are on the registry, and can only be transferred to another eligible agency, or destroyed.

[Drizzle]

Somewhat related to the topic discussed; I read that in MN we are forbidden from having machine guns, unless they also qualify as collector firearms, that is, more than 50 years old, for example a bunch of ARs just became eligible recently.

Yes or no, or a more nuanced answer?

[Holland&Holland]

Somewhat related to the topic discussed; I read that in MN we are forbidden from having machine guns, unless they also qualify as collector firearms, that is, more than 50 years old, for example a bunch of ARs just became eligible recently.

Yes or no, or a more nuanced answer?

Isn't it a date not an age?

[xd ED]

Somewhat related to the topic discussed; I read that in MN we are forbidden from having machine guns, unless they also qualify as collector firearms, that is, more than 50 years old, for example a bunch of ARs just became eligible recently.

Yes or no, or a more nuanced answer?

Isn't it a date not an age?

I always assumed it was a hard date.This appears to say otherwise:

Per the google machine:

Curious & Relics BATF

Curios & Relics

A regulation implementing federal firearms laws, 27 CFR § 478.11, defines curio or relic (C&R) firearms as those which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons.

To be recognized as C&R items, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;

Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.

Also:

Please note that firearms regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) may be classified as C&R items, but still may be subject to the provisions of the NFA. If your C&R item is an NFA firearm (e.g., Winchester Trappers) and you desire removal from the NFA status, you must submit it to FATD for evaluation and a formal classification....

Looks like a 50 y.o. full auto might become eligible for C & R status, but as I read it, it's not done automatically.

IANAL/ RWYPFTI

[Lumpy]

Any litigation against Hughes, the 1968 GCA or the 1934 NFA currently fighting for a SCOTUS hearing?

[bstrawse]

Do they have to surrender the firearm when leaving the job? Just curious.

Yes, the firearms belong to the department, not to the individual officer.

[bstrawse]

Somewhat related to the topic discussed; I read that in MN we are forbidden from having machine guns, unless they also qualify as collector firearms, that is, more than 50 years old, for example a bunch of ARs just became eligible recently.

Yes or no, or a more nuanced answer?

MN 609.67 is the controlling statute along with the requirements in federal law.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.67

Specifically 609.67 Subd 3. (3) has the main exception:

persons possessing machine guns or short-barreled shotguns which, although designed as weapons, have been determined by the superintendent of the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension or the superintendent's delegate by reason of the date of manufacture, value, design or other characteristics to be primarily collector's items, relics, museum pieces or objects of curiosity, ornaments or keepsakes, and are not likely to be used as weapons;

[bstrawse]

Any litigation against Hughes, the 1968 GCA or the 1934 NFA currently fighting for a SCOTUS hearing?

That's a really broad question as the 1968 GCA and the 1934 NFA make up the bulk of 18 USC 922, the federal criminal laws applying to firearms.

Here' the tracker that the FPC & 2A Foundation keep up to date with all current 2A litigation in the country. There are about 400 cases going on.

https://airtable.com/shrcrC5FsedZqIi3T/ ... 876GOWN0dN

[Holland&Holland]

Interesting. Now SBRs and Suppressors are not going to be enough, I need to invest in giggle switched arms too!

[Drizzle]

Thanks!