The light bulb has come on.

[nyffman]

Lately there have been several mass shooting incidents taking place and featured prominently in the news. Naturally, most of us would take a position somewhat different from the average person. The world is a complicated place which I am aware that I am not qualified to explain, but a quote from this article, I think illuminates a large part of what is happening.

One man whose wife was one of the victims asked, "What is it about American society that keeps turning out these kinds of people? What is it about our society that keeps driving people to do things like this?"

There has been a massive societal shift from the 60's(the earliest times I can remember) in that there wasn't the sense of entitlement back then that there is now, a great deal of jealousy that others have something that you can't afford and a corresponding feeling that the govt should correct that. It is inevitable that a certain number will become frustrated to the point of violence. I think a large share of the blame needs to be attributed to the liberal wing of the government that has promoted this attitude that we are all equal. Not everyone has what it takes to succeed in college, forget the college education for everyone programs. The rich aren't as big a problem as some on the left want to make them appear. If it wasn't for the rich buying the first cell phones, big screen tv's and other devices, they wouldn't have been developed to the point where almost anyone can afford them now. If it wasn't for the rich seeking out doctors to perform expensive experimental procedures to prolong their lives, many of these procedures would also not be developed and become commonly used by the rest of us. I'm sure most of you could think of even more examples of the error in the entitlement mentality. The real problem is, how to get back some degree of self reliance and a balanced independent attitude and more realistice self assesment. IMO, a gun ban of some sort, which is the most likely result of these latest events, is comparable to treating a massive infection with strychnine.

[R.E.T.]

Lately there have been several mass shooting incidents taking place and featured prominently in the news. Naturally, most of us would take a position somewhat different from the average person. The world is a complicated place which I am aware that I am not qualified to explain, but a quote from this article, I think illuminates a large part of what is happening.

One man whose wife was one of the victims asked, "What is it about American society that keeps turning out these kinds of people? What is it about our society that keeps driving people to do things like this?"

There has been a massive societal shift from the 60's(the earliest times I can remember) in that there wasn't the sense of entitlement back then that there is now, a great deal of jealousy that others have something that you can't afford and a corresponding feeling that the govt should correct that. It is inevitable that a certain number will become frustrated to the point of violence. I think a large share of the blame needs to be attributed to the liberal wing of the government that has promoted this attitude that we are all equal. Not everyone has what it takes to succeed in college, forget the college education for everyone programs. The rich aren't as big a problem as some on the left want to make them appear. If it wasn't for the rich buying the first cell phones, big screen tv's and other devices, they wouldn't have been developed to the point where almost anyone can afford them now. If it wasn't for the rich seeking out doctors to perform expensive experimental procedures to prolong their lives, many of these procedures would also not be developed and become commonly used by the rest of us. I'm sure most of you could think of even more examples of the error in the entitlement mentality. The real problem is, how to get back some degree of self reliance and a balanced independent attitude and more realistice self assesment. IMO, a gun ban of some sort, which is the most likely result of these latest events, is comparable to treating a massive infection with strychnine.

I can remember back farther than the 60's. I was a time that if you wanted something you worked and saved to get it. Either you achieved your goal or you didn't. It was considered that all people were created equal, but all did not remain equal.

[gunflint]

That was back when we were allowed to have winners and losers.

[VikesFan1]

I agree there's been a shift but liberals can't be left holding the bag on this. There's PLENTY of reasons for the current entitlement mentality that trace back only as far as the last presidential era. One example is the deregulation of the banking industry, which created the economic bubble, and then bust, which we currently reside. During this great period of "prosperity," every middle-class mom needed a new mini-van, with multiple TV's, and a camper and a RV and a boat for camping trips, etc, etc. The media fed this notion, and boy did it. If you weren't keeping up with the Jonses you were a failure. But many of these things we've been told we are entitled to are for the rich. We've lost sight of what it means to be middle class. Couple that with the fact that we are now in a correction period, and some people simply don't have the tools to deal with it. The jobs aren't there, the pay isn't there, the healthcare isn't there, the security isn't there, retirements are gone, and moral is low. It's not good times. The time for partisan politics is over. A famous JFK quote comes to mind. Something about asking not what this country can do for you, but what you can do... This means everyone... Not just if you feel like it... for the good of the country you are so willing to live in and defend... God knows the Prez needs all the support he can get, if we are to get through this without major incident. We don't have to like it, but that's the way it is. ...And banning guns is not the answer.

[sochr000]

My personal belief is that it's because people aren't supposed to hit their kids anymore... Yes, I said it, if the little wiener does something stupid, a spanking, a backhand, or a belt is going to fix it sooner than some happy talk. Kids these days don't have anything to really fear, show them what screaming in a department store gets them and it'll stop really fast.

Growing up it wasn't the spanking that I was really afraid of, it was the fact that my mom would do it ANYWHERE she felt it was appropriate, be it in the middle of a store, in front of friends, whatever. The fear of getting the crap spanked out of me in front of people is what kept me in line.

[mnmike59]

Seems I remember Clinton (Dem) deregulated the banks.
Seems the media is made up of primarily (Dems)
Seems JFK ( Dem) opened up the immigration gate

[rose359]

I think the media plays a big role in motivating people to perform these atrocities. If you are a loser, you still have a path to celebrity. Your name and your story can be front page on every media outlet for days. If you choose to go down, the media gives you the opportunity to do it in a blaze of glory. Everyone will know your name and see your picture.

Malcom Gladwell wrote a book titled "The Tipping Point" that explored the phenomenon of one event triggering other similar events. One of the examples is a teen suicide in Malaysia. Almost unheard of, one well publicized teen suicide was quickly followed by a series of teen suicides. It is an interesting read.

Of course the recent shooting tragedies will trigger calls for gun control. I refer people back to Columbine. The most dangerous weapons brought to school that tragic day were not firearms, they were 20 pound propane cans. Thankfully, they were not successful in igniting them, though it is not difficult to achieve. In a high density setting like a lunchroom or auditorium, the devastation could have been huge. Most of us could collect 100 pounds of propane from our neighbors' backyards and patios within 15 minutes. Perhaps we should outlaw outdoor cooking. Remember, the Oklahoma City terrorist attack was achieved with a rental van, fertilizer, and diesel fuel. If only we could outlaw those materials, then we could live in peace. 911 could have been prevented by a ban on air travel and box cutters. If we outlawed boxes, there would be no box-cutters.

[1911fan]

actually all of these events have one thing in common.


All of the shooters have been taking or just recently quit taking SSRI class of drugs. Prozac, wellbutrin,zoloft, etc all powerful mood shifters which all admit carry a huge risk of side effects. Listen to the ads on TV, "if you have sudden urges about suicide of violence, call your Dr."

These drugs claim avery low rate of suicide, or other "major" side effects, well below 1%,but if you have 10,000,000 people on these drugs 1% equals 100,000 suicides and other major side effects. Which also defines, guess what, violent outbursts, aggresion towards others, and overpowering thoughts of dispair and paranoia.

[Stradawhovious]

Wow, I had not been aware of that little tidbit. 1911, do you have some links you could PM me? I'd love to read into that so I can nail my anti, leftist Abnormal psych professor to the wall with it.

[mnmike59]

actually all of these events have one thing in common.


All of the shooters have been taking or just recently quit taking SSRI class of drugs. Prozac, wellbutrin,zoloft, etc all powerful mood shifters which all admit carry a huge risk of side effects. Listen to the ads on TV, "if you have sudden urges about suicide of violence, call your Dr."

These drugs claim avery low rate of suicide, or other "major" side effects, well below 1%,but if you have 10,000,000 people on these drugs 1% equals 100,000 suicides and other major side effects. Which also defines, guess what, violent outbursts, aggresion towards others, and overpowering thoughts of dispair and paranoia.

Brilliant. I never thought of that. That makes total sense.

[rose359]

While SSRI drug side effects are well recognized, including thoughts of suicide and feeling worse or feeling worse before feeling better, what would be the effect of the millions of people on SSRI drugs not taking them? I don't expect it would be a happier picture.

[selurcspi]

While SSRI drug side effects are well recognized, including thoughts of suicide and feeling worse or feeling worse before feeling better, what would be the effect of the millions of people on SSRI drugs not taking them? I don't expect it would be a happier picture.

How long have these drugs been available and how well did we get along without them?

[Stradawhovious]

For those of you who don't know (and selurcspi, I know you aren't one of them) these drugs have been given out like candy since the mid 1980's. Chances are if you go to your family practitioner and tell them you aren't feeling up to par emotionally, they will diagnose a "general malaise" and give you an RX for one of these drugs with no further questions asked. As a matter of fact, they are prescribed as smoking cessation aides as well.

Here's a question for you........ How many school shootings were there before 1985?

[selurcspi]

For those of you who don't know (and selurcspi, I know you aren't one of them) these drugs have been given out like candy since the mid 1980's. Chances are if you go to your family practitioner and tell them you aren't feeling up to par emotionally, they will diagnose a "general malaise" and give you an RX for one of these drugs with no further questions asked. As a matter of fact, they are prescribed as smoking cessation aides as well.

Here's a question for you........ How many school shootings were there before 1985?

In England they began giving drugs in this way to young mothers who were having a hard time coping with their children. In the 60s, they were known as "Mother's little helper" Valium, Librium and a host of others, suddenly babies were dying and young children were being phyically abused. The NHS then stopped reccomending the prescribing of these anti depressants for mothers and Dr's clinics organized discussion groups instead.

The medical profession has much to answer for.

[Tutmos]

Just a minor point but Welbutrin / Zyban isn't an SSRI. In the interest of full disclosure I used a combination of Welbutrin and patches to quit smoking. (2 1/2 packs a day for 15 years since age 13) It's now been about 7 years since I quit so I suppose my excuse to go nuts has long since passed.