Burnsville Winter Action Pistol League 2015-16

[TTS]

Thanks!

[SkyRock]

I missed the first match

Where are results being posted this year?

I also send out a single text file of the same results to all that have shot this season.

For me, it's easier to look at a single text file than have to pick seperate parts to see. But then, I used to have a pet dinosaur when I was a kid.

[andrewP]

But then, I used to have a pet dinosaur when I was a kid.

Sounds like a fun childhood! I hope next time I manage to pay more attention to putting my feet where you tell me to - all those penalty points left a mark on my score. Still wasn't quite last, but nonetheless, ouch.

[LumberZach]

But then, I used to have a pet dinosaur when I was a kid.

Sounds like a fun childhood! I hope next time I manage to pay more attention to putting my feet where you tell me to - all those penalty points left a mark on my score. Still wasn't quite last, but nonetheless, ouch.

I noticed you quite a ways down the list from me the scores this week made me feel pretty good. All joking aside, I tried to send you a pm, but tapatalk won't let me on my phone. - if you and your wife wanna shoot trap showtime let me know. I'd be happy to go shoot and maybe I can lend some pointers.

[andrewP]

I tried to send you a pm, but tapatalk won't let me on my phone.

Sent one back to you; hopefully tapatalk lets you receive them, at least.

[Snowgun]

Best 8 of 13?

TBD

Has this been determined yet?

[SkyRock]

Best 8 of 13?

TBD

Has this been determined yet?

A minimum of 8 matches are required to be eligible for a season score. It will probably (maybe, possibly) be by the overall Match Average, not the Best 8 Average.

[Snowgun]

Has this been determined yet?

A minimum of 8 matches are required to be eligible for a season score. It will probably (maybe, possibly) be by the overall Match Average, not the Best 8 Average.

Overall match average is weird, since then it makes sense to just shoot 8 good scores and then not shoot anymore since it will just hurt your score. The extra scores will just bring you down, especially since there is a score ceiling limit of 100% and the top players are typically between 95 and 100% each match. Plus, you can really get penalized if you have one gun malfunction on one stage on one match and end up with a 10%. It would cost you the entire season.

I would suggest just taking best 8, or even making it best 9 or 10 if you want a larger match sample.

[SkyRock]

A minimum of 8 matches are required to be eligible for a season score. It will probably (maybe, possibly) be by the overall Match Average, not the Best 8 Average.

Overall match average is weird, since then it makes sense to just shoot 8 good scores and then not shoot anymore since it will just hurt your score. The extra scores will just bring you down, especially since there is a score ceiling limit of 100% and the top players are typically between 95 and 100% each match. Plus, you can really get penalized if you have one gun malfunction on one stage on one match and end up with a 10%. It would cost you the entire season.

I would suggest just taking best 8, or even making it best 9 or 10 if you want a larger match sample.

I actually agree more than disagree. The "8 of 13" was chosed to "reward" those that supported the matches by attending (that's a count of divisions a shooter entered - if they entered once in Production division and 7 times in Lmited division, they wouldn't meet the minimum). However, I'm not comfortable making the "Best N" greater than the minimum.

Nothing is in concrete, though. If you've got some ideas on this, I'd really appreciate hearing from you (or anyone - I couldn't find ANY guidelines on how other clubs handle season scoring, other than "we just average the scores.").

[Snowgun]

I think just taking the best of the minimum number of entry scores in a particular division and averaging them is perfect. It is what MNUSPSA does for their state points series championship as well. In fact, there is no need to average since everyone takes the best 8 scores, it can just be a total.

My comment with using 9 or 10 was just to increase the minimum if you wanted people to come more or if you wanted the results to reflect the product of more matches. The scores used should reflect the minimum required, i agree. However, I wouldn't go more than 10 (and that's sort of pushing it), since most people can't always make every league night.

I think this is a case where the system isn't broke. Take the best 8 match scores and add them up. Simple, fair, competitive, fun. Done.

[Ron Burgundy]

I think this is a case where the system isn't broke. Take the best 8 match scores and add them up. Simple, fair, competitive, fun. Done.

I agree. I think the current system works and is simple enough for dummies like me to understand.

If you really wanted to juice things up how about = (cumulative season score - worst match score) / ( total matches shot - 1)?

I don't math very good but wouldn't this protect from one-time equipment malfunctions and also reduce the hero/zero approach? I can usually only make the minimum 8 but if I can make more I know I will be going balls to the wall trying to hero any match after #8

Thanks Skyrock and all the others for running the league

[SkyRock]

I think this is a case where the system isn't broke. Take the best 8 match scores and add them up. Simple, fair, competitive, fun. Done.

I agree. I think the current system works and is simple enough for dummies like me to understand.

If you really wanted to juice things up how about = (cumulative season score - worst match score) / ( total matches shot - 1)?

I don't math very good but wouldn't this protect from one-time equipment malfunctions and also reduce the hero/zero approach? I can usually only make the minimum 8 but if I can make more I know I will be going balls to the wall trying to hero any match after #8

Thanks Skyrock and all the others for running the league

At one time, I had a spreadsheet to score just that way. I called it the "Toss 1 Match" method, for lack of a better name, since I couldn't find any description on the internet that would do that.

The way I see it, the scoring methods are:
Use all match scores.
Pros: Simple. Most accruate of a shooter's capabilities (when there are no mechanical problems).
Cons: Match(es) with the pistol having a major melt-down drag the season score down.
Comment: You brung it, you're responsible for what it does. No freebies.

Toss 1 worst-scoring match.
Pros: Allows for one match with major pistol problems.
Cons: Not an accurate measure of the shooters' abilities (OK, slightly off).
Comment: Gives an artificial "boost" in the score for those that had no gun problems.

Best 8 ("8" is based on the number of matches in the season - about 2/3s, give or take).
Pros: Eliminates the matches with possible gun problems (Folks, if you shoot 8+ matches and your gun gives you fits each time, maybe you need to rethink what your doing!)
Cons: Really an artificial measure of a season's match scores.
Comments: I think this method has the greatest possibility of skewing the results too much.

Sorry to be long-winded. The more I stew on it, the more I think the Toss1 method would probably be the best of all choices.

Comments, please?

[SkyRock]

Thanks Skyrock and all the others for running the league

Thanks, but I'm only at the helm. Lots of others contribute (ROs, setup, teardown, and such). Without them, I wouldn't be doing it.

[Snowgun]

At one time, I had a spreadsheet to score just that way. I called it the "Toss 1 Match" method, for lack of a better name, since I couldn't find any description on the internet that would do that.

The way I see it, the scoring methods are:
Use all match scores.
Pros: Simple. Most accruate of a shooter's capabilities (when there are no mechanical problems).
Cons: Match(es) with the pistol having a major melt-down drag the season score down.
Comment: You brung it, you're responsible for what it does. No freebies.

Toss 1 worst-scoring match.
Pros: Allows for one match with major pistol problems.
Cons: Not an accurate measure of the shooters' abilities (OK, slightly off).
Comment: Gives an artificial "boost" in the score for those that had no gun problems.

Best 8 ("8" is based on the number of matches in the season - about 2/3s, give or take).
Pros: Eliminates the matches with possible gun problems (Folks, if you shoot 8+ matches and your gun gives you fits each time, maybe you need to rethink what your doing!)
Cons: Really an artificial measure of a season's match scores.
Comments: I think this method has the greatest possibility of skewing the results too much.

Sorry to be long-winded. The more I stew on it, the more I think the Toss1 method would probably be the best of all choices.

Comments, please?

Mathematically the best 8 is the most representative of shooting ability when comparing shooters. It allows all competitors to EQUALLY take their best 8 (which is damn large sample size out of 13) and throw the rest away. If your equipment is faulty it will show up in that 8 of 13. Also, everyone gets 8. Its uniform.

The problem with the other two isn't really so much the worst score issue (but it does have an effect), its the fact that everyone will be judged off a different number of turned in scores. Averaging one persons 8 is not an equivalent comparison of shooting performance to another persons 13 matches. It's almost like randomly picking the number and type of scores for each competitor used in their average.

If the point is to compare everyone together the best 8 is the most equalizing method across the board.

[Ron Burgundy]

Best 8 is easy and seems to work.

Im not too worried about equipment failures. It's part of the game. Likewise, im not too worried about dropping a week (as much as I'd like to drop the week I plugged a bunch of no shoots)