TTSX vs. Partition on moose

[Holland&Holland]

Ok, I have quite a bit of experience with deer and game smaller with a variety of projectiles over the years. I also process my own meat and consider myself a somewhat of a student of terminal ballistics and analyzing what happened with the projectile in the animal. Of course the downside is that when something fails you don't recover the animal so you don't get to analyze that, though I have had to track a few for friends and such that I did get to analyze what I would call an initial less than ideal performance. This has led me to projectiles that for better or worse I trust and ones that I do not. Not to say that you CAN"T kill any animal with any projectile and of course shot placement trumps all but I digress.

My question today, is that there are members of this forum that over the years I have gleaned have significant experience with larger game. If they would so indulge me I would like to garner their thoughts on a specific scenario. If from there this thread wants to delve into other projectiles, pros and cons.... that is my type of discussion.

But to start here is the scenario. Looking to plan a canadian moose hunt in the next couple of years, also might get an opportunity at a moose hunt in Sweden with relatives. So wooded, expect shorter likely under 100 yard shooting. Would like to be able to reach out to 200 but this is not a long range shot performance discussion. Rifle will be a bolt action in .35 Whelen with a 22 inch barrel. I think I have narrowed it down to either a nosler partition or a barnes ttsx. Leaning towards a 250 in the partition or the 200 ttsx.

Thoughts?

[Vlad]

I know not apples to apples. I use 125 gr partitions in my 300 WTF for deer and I have no issue recommending the design. I will try to put up some pics of recovered bullets. I also am a fan of the accuracy out of my pistol.

Cheers H&H on the upcoming trips.

[Jackpine Savage]

I have a couple boxes of Barnes sitting on the shelf but I haven't used them yet. One thing I often see mentioned with the Barnes is they need speed to perform. I just read an article suggesting 1800 to 2000 FPS minimum. Not sure how that fits with the Whelen.

I've taken one moose in my life, that was with 225gr Trophy Bonded Bearclaw in a .338 Win Mag at about 200 yards. The first shot was good, but I shot him two more times because he didn't fall down. He actually only went about 25 yards.

Good luck on your hunts!

I'm looking forward to crbutler chiming in on this one!

[crbutler]

Moose are rather dumb… it takes a lot to convince them that they are dead.

The Barnes is the prototypical monometal bullet. I use them on dangerous game regularly. (.375, .416, and .470) If you use the TTSX, I’ve never seen them not expand. I’ve seen and heard of the .30 and smaller not expanding in the regular hollow point TSX on rare occasions. They do not have as much shock effect as the partition, but do tend to penetrate deeper. No problem with the .35 Whelen in moose. The monometals do like velocity for rapid killing, so going to a lighter bullet tends to help them.

The partition is the first of the premium bullets. They tend to lose a fair amount of their front core, but still penetrate well… maybe not quite as good at holding together as the A Frame (which is the same basic design but bonded cores as well). If you are one of the folks who worries about lead in the meat, then that is a negative.

Overall, the .35 whelen isn’t a speed demon, so you shouldn’t have the meat too badly bloodshot regardless of bullet choice. Get impact speeds much over 2700, and you see a lot of it.

Either bullet will work.

If I was going to Sweden, I’d double check on the regulations as Europe has kind of gone done the green route, and you might be mandated to use non lead bullets.

My moose hunting has been with the .338 250 grain A frame. The bullets have not been recovered there, in one side, out the other. I tend to want the heavier for caliber bullet to get that result.

[hard h2o]

Are you reloading for the .35 Whelen?

I experimented with the TTSX in my .300 WSM. One issue is the length of the mono bullets is longer than the same weight in a lead core bullet so powder selection is key. I had compressed loads and pressure signs so I am sticking with my 180 grain Accubonds for now.

I am thinking about the CX for the .300 WSM. I do not believe they are available in .358.

I believe either the Partition or the TTSX will do the job within the range you are looking at. The one issue might be expansion velocity. I am pretty sure you are good between 1800 and 2200 FPS on target for reliable expansion for the TTSX. The partition will expand down to 1600 FPS so it is a bit mor forgiving.

[Jackpine Savage]

Another consideration. Make sure you have fast enough rifling to stabilize the longer bullets.

[crbutler]

Additionally-
I have shot a .350 Remington magnum some.

It’s a short action version of the .35 Whelen.

I’ve had good luck with a 225 TSX and the 250 A Frame in that. The A frame is a bit slow unless you load it a bit long due to a lack of powder space. It’s less of an issue in the whelen.

At those velocities, even a cup and core bullet (like the 250 hornady interlock) holds together pretty well with a decent jacket.

Barnes has reloading data… it does tend to be on the warm side for max. The .358 is a big enough hole in the hollow point I would not worry about using the straight TSX instead.

Moose tend to be a close range shot, so I wouldn’t get too out in the weeds with trajectories or velocities. They are also pretty mild mannered beasts so you don’t need to worry so much about charges or such.

The 35 whelen was pretty much designed for moose and bear. It’s an excellent choice. Any designed hunting bullet is good in that round. Use a hornady interlock, a ballistic tip, a Winchester, federal, or Remington soft point and it will hold together reasonably well. Id stay away from Berger bullets for moose. I like the added confidence that a stout hunting bullet gives and since the ammo is a minimal expense in hunting, tend to use the premiums. TSX, A Frame, partition, trophy bonded bear claw, Hammer, Northfork all are going to hold up to any angle. The closer to a .3 sectional density you can get helps as well. While in the past there were 275 and 300 grain .35 bullets, I don’t think anyone makes those still. If I recall right the 200 grain design was more intended for the .35 Remington and is more properly a deer bullet than a big game bullet. I’d stick with 225 or 250 grain bullets, and while the monometal ones are longer, they should be fine in 225/250 grain format.

Don’t get the safari solid bullets for moose. I don’t think they even offer them in .358, but there is no need for solids or FMJ. If you wanted a handgun or a .45-70, hard cast lead is good as well.

Even shooting a moose with a .416 or .375 magnum isn’t going to make a heart shot moose drop in its tracks.

A point on shot placement- a lung or heart shot will ruin little meat. A shoulder shot with a big rifle will stop them from moving far, but they can still walk on 3 legs far enough to make recovery a chore. Gut shoot a moose and you have a rodeo on your hands. They are big. No reason to not get a hit in a good spot. Given their nature, I would tend to gravitate more to deep penetration than expansion of a bullet with moose.

Hunting Alaska for moose was a highlight. You will enjoy moose hunting (until you get to recovery, anyhow…)!

[Holland&Holland]

Are you reloading for the .35 Whelen?

I experimented with the TTSX in my .300 WSM. One issue is the length of the mono bullets is longer than the same weight in a lead core bullet so powder selection is key. I had compressed loads and pressure signs so I am sticking with my 180 grain Accubonds for now.

I am thinking about the CX for the .300 WSM. I do not believe they are available in .358.

I believe either the Partition or the TTSX will do the job within the range you are looking at. The one issue might be expansion velocity. I am pretty sure you are good between 1800 and 2200 FPS on target for reliable expansion for the TTSX. The partition will expand down to 1600 FPS so it is a bit mor forgiving.

I am not right now so hoping for a factory loading initially. Longer term, yes but ... time

[Holland&Holland]

Additionally-
I have shot a .350 Remington magnum some.

It’s a short action version of the .35 Whelen.

I’ve had good luck with a 225 TSX and the 250 A Frame in that. The A frame is a bit slow unless you load it a bit long due to a lack of powder space. It’s less of an issue in the whelen.

At those velocities, even a cup and core bullet (like the 250 hornady interlock) holds together pretty well with a decent jacket.

Barnes has reloading data… it does tend to be on the warm side for max. The .358 is a big enough hole in the hollow point I would not worry about using the straight TSX instead.

Moose tend to be a close range shot, so I wouldn’t get too out in the weeds with trajectories or velocities. They are also pretty mild mannered beasts so you don’t need to worry so much about charges or such.

The 35 whelen was pretty much designed for moose and bear. It’s an excellent choice. Any designed hunting bullet is good in that round. Use a hornady interlock, a ballistic tip, a Winchester, federal, or Remington soft point and it will hold together reasonably well. Id stay away from Berger bullets for moose. I like the added confidence that a stout hunting bullet gives and since the ammo is a minimal expense in hunting, tend to use the premiums. TSX, A Frame, partition, trophy bonded bear claw, Hammer, Northfork all are going to hold up to any angle. The closer to a .3 sectional density you can get helps as well. While in the past there were 275 and 300 grain .35 bullets, I don’t think anyone makes those still. If I recall right the 200 grain design was more intended for the .35 Remington and is more properly a deer bullet than a big game bullet. I’d stick with 225 or 250 grain bullets, and while the monometal ones are longer, they should be fine in 225/250 grain format.

Don’t get the safari solid bullets for moose. I don’t think they even offer them in .358, but there is no need for solids or FMJ. If you wanted a handgun or a .45-70, hard cast lead is good as well.

Even shooting a moose with a .416 or .375 magnum isn’t going to make a heart shot moose drop in its tracks.

A point on shot placement- a lung or heart shot will ruin little meat. A shoulder shot with a big rifle will stop them from moving far, but they can still walk on 3 legs far enough to make recovery a chore. Gut shoot a moose and you have a rodeo on your hands. They are big. No reason to not get a hit in a good spot. Given their nature, I would tend to gravitate more to deep penetration than expansion of a bullet with moose.

Hunting Alaska for moose was a highlight. You will enjoy moose hunting (until you get to recovery, anyhow…)!

I was not a copper convert until recently. Deer wise I have had tremendous luck with Federal fusions but could not get them last year in the rifle I wanted to hunt with so tried some TTSXs. I was extremely impressed with the performance and the lack of blood shot meat was very noticeable. I realize this is only one data point but that along with pod casts from some folks that really seem to know their stuff have me thinking this might be the way to go. That said, I have always thought of the .35 Whelen as ideal moose medicine and the partition has always been in my mind as the ideal paring with it so hence my dilemma.

I have recovered one moose before, I grew up in NW MN and we used to have a very large population up there. Anyway, one deer season (maybe 1992 ish) we come across a wounded moose that had been shot in the rear haunch. The game warden authorized us to put it down and then brought out a tag for the meat. We lost one rear quarter as it was green and nasty but salvaged the other 3. It was a younger bull, not too much for head gear but when we used a come-along and several neighbors to get it on the back of a 1 ton ford the ford's shocks were fully compressed. Luckly we only had about 2 miles to go back to the farm. I still have a scar on my thumb where my brothers knife slipped while we were skinning it and sliced me open.

[Holland&Holland]

Thank you all for your replies so far. I do like discussion on projectiles and performance on game

[hard h2o]

Shooting factory out of a .35 Whelen your options may be a bit limited, hard to find, and expensive in a premium bullet.

I would find someone with the resources for reloading and roll some of your own.

[Holland&Holland]

Shooting factory out of a .35 Whelen your options may be a bit limited, hard to find, and expensive in a premium bullet.

I would find someone with the resources for reloading and roll some of your own.

Yup, it is however I can source factory 200 grain TTSX from Barnes and Nosler 250 gr and 225 gr partitions loaded by Nosler. Eventually if I go the partition route I think hand loading will make the most sense. The TTSXs are easier to get and really not that expensive. About the same price as Fusions and Corelokts on retailers shelves.

Don't get me wrong you are correct of course, I do have dies for it, and will get there eventually, just many other things eating up my time these days.

[Holland&Holland]

I know not apples to apples. I use 125 gr partitions in my 300 WTF for deer and I have no issue recommending the design. I will try to put up some pics of recovered bullets. I also am a fan of the accuracy out of my pistol.

Cheers H&H on the upcoming trips.

Would love to see those!