response from manufacturer on accuracy of Dillon D-Terminato

[DeanC]

You just need to shoot bigger guns.

He would, but even with all the wealth he has amassed from Minnesota Mining, he doesn't want to hassle with the paperwork for owning several "destructive devices".

[jdege]

If you're loading .25 ACP, the difference between 1.4 grains and 1.5 grains could matter a lot. In a .50 BMG, the difference between 185.5 and 185.6 grains isn't likely to matter at all.

Somebody clue jedge in on the caliber of guns I DO shoot!!

If you're loading cases with more that 100 grains, you don't really need to worry about 0.1 grain differences. Second order of magnitude matters, third not so much. Fourth is noise.

[Seismic Sam]

To repeat what I said above, ANY scale that has an accuracy of .01 grams and 0.1 grains is fundamentally flawed in its precision specification, and shouldn't be trusted for a reloading application.

You just need to shoot bigger guns.

If you're loading .25 ACP, the difference between 1.4 grains and 1.5 grains could matter a lot. In a .50 BMG, the difference between 185.5 and 185.6 grains isn't likely to matter at all.

I think you're missing the point. No, one tenth of a grain does not matter that much unless you are an "urban fur trader" and have to load up ammo for your pimpgun.

The point is that with a scale of this precision in grams and grains, the scale WILL NOT DISPLAY over HALF the grain weights possible. So if you want to do a string of charge weights in 0.1 grain increments, you are totally screwed with a scale like this. It WILL NOT read out ten consecutive tenth grain increments in a row!! With enough slop in the transducer, the software, and the ambient electronic noise and static MAYBE it will read out a few more grain weights, but then you're simply trading less accuracy for more weights that probably are a little more wrong.

Oh, got three 50 caliber pistols that are all different cartridges, and a 50 caliber AR-15 in 50 Action express.

[RAGGED]

If you're loading cases with more that 100 grains, you don't really need to worry about 0.1 grain differences. Second order of magnitude matters, third not so much. Fourth is noise.

I don't know about that, I guess it all depends on what you deem to "matter". I shoot 92.2 gr of Retumbo in my 338 and I know for a FACT I would not be seeing single digit extreme spreads if I wasn't weighing to less than .1 gr (my scale does .02+/-). Single digit velocity spreads are almost a must if you hope to be even somewhat competitive in 1000 yard shooting. Now at shorter ranges of course that’s not a big deal, I had sloppy starting loads with 30-40 FPS ES's that still shot single hole 5 shot groups @ 100, but when stretched out to 600 yards or more that velocity spread becomes VERY apparent.

[Seismic Sam]

If you're loading cases with more that 100 grains, you don't really need to worry about 0.1 grain differences. Second order of magnitude matters, third not so much. Fourth is noise.

I don't know about that, I guess it all depends on what you deem to "matter". I shoot 92.2 gr of Retumbo in my 338 and I know for a FACT I would not be seeing single digit extreme spreads if I wasn't weighing to less than .1 gr (my scale does .02+/-). Single digit velocity spreads are almost a must if you hope to be even somewhat competitive in 1000 yard shooting. Now at shorter ranges of course that’s not a big deal, I had sloppy starting loads with 30-40 FPS ES's that still shot single hole 5 shot groups @ 100, but when stretched out to 600 yards or more that velocity spread becomes VERY apparent.

Well, okay then!! looks like the 3 place Ohaus is gonna be on the bench when I'm reloading 338 RUM from now on...

BTW - ever get them Berger bullets to work?? Got into a discussion with the guy at Bullseye in Lake Elmo, and made some disparaging comments about the bullets and their failure to live up to the hype, and he started asking me what I meant. I said that their stated .818 BC was scarely better that the .768 of the 300 Matchkings, and he told me that the .818 BC was the BC for a 1,000 yard shot! So that is a big difference, but I still have that problem of the Bergers going flat on me at 2660 FPS, while the Matchking data is dead linear and shows a nice velocity SD contraction at the 2750 FPS point.

Just checked my chrono data, and 94.0 grains of Retumbo with a 300 MK .020" off the lands gives me an SD of 7 and an ES of 18 FPS for a 5 shot group, measured with my Redding beam scale.

[RAGGED]

Well, okay then!! looks like the 3 place Ohaus is gonna be on the bench when I'm reloading 338 RUM from now on...

BTW - ever get them Berger bullets to work?? Got into a discussion with the guy at Bullseye in Lake Elmo, and made some disparaging comments about the bullets and their failure to live up to the hype, and he started asking me what I meant. I said that their stated .818 BC was scarely better that the .768 of the 300 Matchkings, and he told me that the .818 BC was the BC for a 1,000 yard shot! So that is a big difference, but I still have that problem of the Bergers going flat on me at 2660 FPS, while the Matchking data is dead linear and shows a nice velocity SD contraction at the 2750 FPS point.

Just checked my chrono data, and 94.0 grains of Retumbo with a 300 MK .020" off the lands gives me an SD of 7 and an ES of 18 FPS for a 5 shot group, measured with my Redding beam scale.

Ohaus! I thought you had a uber high end MT!


You know I bought two boxes of the Bergers right after you got yours, then started seeing the posts on the net and decided I just didn't care to shoot them, I opened one box to ogle and the other is sealed, the SMK's work just dandy.

I wonder what exactly he means by .818 for a 1000 yard shot, is that based on some sort of avg velocity of typical rounds that shoot that bullet? I know the BC will change as velocity changes, is .818 @ 1000 what its actually doing @ 1000 @ typical velocities or is that an avg of all BC it’s from 0-1000? At any rate hopefully they get the bullet slump issue figured out, until I’m sure everything has been delt with I’m not sending any down my tube, hopefully they will swap out some new ones for the old ones, I have the better part of $80 tied up in 100 bullets I can’t use.

92.2 gr of Retumbo WAS my magic load and had been giving me single digit ES's. This was in early spring, I then put the rig aside for awhile and didn't touch it again till mid August and boy was I in for a surprise! My load fell apart big time in the warmer weather, still safe, no bolt drag, no primer issues, just noticed the groups were not what they once were and dragged out the Millennium and sure enough velocities were all over the place, 30-40FPS ES’s and a bit higher (but not much) than before, dialed back the load to 91.5 and got velocities into the 2730-2740 FPS range and she came right back in. This tells me I’m clearly on the edge of the top node. I kind of want to find a lower node in hopes that it won’t completely fall apart if it gets a bit warm. I’ve always found the Hodgdon Extreme powders to be pretty tolerant of temperature. I shoot allot of 4831SC and never had any real issues jumping 45 degrees in temp but then again I’ve never had a round that was in the 65,000+ PSI range, these damn shooting stick do funny things!
I’ll have to post pics of the modular ballast system I attached to the rifle so I could shoot it in F-Class (no muzzle brakes) Brings the pig up to the legal 21lb weight. It recoil is a little more stout than it is with the brake. This tells me the brake is EXRETEMLY efficient because I ran the numbers thru a very nice recoil calculator and with the weight I added I took off around 33% of recoil, so the brake must be operating in the 45-50% range.

[Seismic Sam]

Well, crap!! The old memory is going on me again, and the scale is a Mettler PM2500, good to .001, so it's not a super high end model. I hadn't looked at it for a while. The scale I DO use a lot for simple junk like counting brass cases and bullets IS an Ohaus with 0.1 gram accuracy and about 1500 gram capacity.

[RAGGED]

Well, crap!! The old memory is going on me again, and the scale is a Mettler PM2500, good to .001, so it's not a super high end model. I hadn't looked at it for a while. The scale I DO use a lot for simple junk like counting brass cases and bullets IS an Ohaus with 0.1 gram accuracy and about 1500 gram capacity.

I still have an Ohaus dial-o-gram triple beam that my father used for reloading before he handed the stuff over to me, it's big but pretty accurate, for his simple hunting rounds it was accurate enough to use for powder, I think it's also .01G, but If memory serves me right it only goes 300 grams or so, maybe the little brother of yours.

And anything Mettler is high end in reloading terms